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[Music]

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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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[Music]

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yes it's the skeptic zone podcast

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episode number 493 for the 1st of April

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2018 Richardson is here with you from a

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very sunny not a cloud in the sky Sydney

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Australia and I'm just back from a

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wonderful four or five days in Melbourne

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staying with my old buddy my old mate

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dr. Steve Roberts from the Australian

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skeptics I flew down there to continue

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the great prediction project because a

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lot of the magazines and reference

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materials that I needed to look at were

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in the State Library of Victoria I've

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never been to the State Library of

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Victoria before but I'm glad I did this

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time a wonderful place very interesting

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good place for study in research as you

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would might expect and the Steve Roberts

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join me for three solid days of research

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we've got there in the morning and just

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plowed through with a break for lunch

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until the late evening for three days

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and we ended up sorting through over 900

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issues of a magazine called new idea and

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Australian listeners will be familiar

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with the new idea magazine because in

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the pages of those magazines apart from

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what your favorite celebrity is doing

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now and what your favorite royal is

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doing now and what's the latest scandal

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and this sort of thing dog stuck up a

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tree where psychic predictions over the

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years so and so the psychic says this is

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what's happening to this favorite royal

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or favorite celebrity normally

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celebrities a year after year normally

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Nicole Kidman for some reason her name

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comes up a lot anyway as part of this

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week's episode of the skeptic zone a

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report on that process as we go to the

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library thumb through magazines and see

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what we can find out

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following that it's a short piece from

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the Australian skeptics website about

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the

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magazine

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verse skeptic the journal from

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Australian skeptics in PDF form you

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might recall that for years we had most

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issues up there but the first ten years

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just selected articles now we have all

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issues apart from the last four which

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you need to look at via subscription

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it's very cheap though anyway a little

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piece about that the whole project from

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the Australian skeptics website where I

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get to quote myself which is very odd

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then to round off the show i chat to

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doctor steve roberts in melbourne about

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his UFO experiences over the years not

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that he's had real UFO experiences but

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he has been one of the spokesmen about

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ufos for many years from Australian

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skeptics and he gives us his opinion on

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why there's been such a dramatic decline

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in UFO stories and UFO interest really

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over the last ten years then we read an

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item we also discovered in the library

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from a now-defunct magazine or newspaper

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in Melbourne called the truth which was

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a very young what would call now very

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trashy our journal sort of the journal

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that used to have page 3 girls and horse

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racing as the dominant reason for their

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existence and scandalous news and things

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like that anyway Steve Roberts was

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quoted in this because they ran a story

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about crop circles crop circles way back

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in 1989 so we'll read you out that story

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which includes Steve's comments so a bit

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of a different show this week mostly

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because I was very busy and away from

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the skeptics own Studios to do research

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as I mentioned at the top of the show

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and as you fully know it's April the 1st

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April Fool's Day which had me thinking

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in years past it was such a big deal an

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April Fool's gag what's what's the April

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Fool's joke I mean I'm sure people still

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do it but I seem to recall when I was

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younger it was a much bigger deal TV

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stations and radio stations as

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would be broadcasting April Fool's jokes

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and trying to fool people in the past

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that was a very notable but now you

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don't hear much about it I don't think

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possibly because there have been cases

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of gags and stunts especially pulled by

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radio stations which have gone very

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wrong and led to tragic outcomes sadly

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so I guess this whole idea of gagging

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and fooling and trying to score points

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over people in that respect is waning in

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our culture what do you think is this an

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April Fool's gag am I really trying to

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fool you you can add your comments to

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the episode listing our and Facebook on

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the skeptics own Facebook page links at

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skeptic zone TV but now it's time for me

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to run downstairs have some toast and

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cream cheese and I'll try something

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different and during one of the lunch

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breaks in Melbourne dr. Steve Roberts

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and I went down Swanson Street I think

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it was found a lovely Japanese

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restaurant very authentic and on the

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table was a little grinder a little mill

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with sesame seeds in it and that was

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fantastic so we were able to put

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ground-up sesame seeds on our lunch

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order so impressed were we we hurried

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down the street after lunch found the

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store selling them and bought a couple

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run downstairs and grind my sesame seeds

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while I do that I hope you enjoy the

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skeptic zone

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I'm stepping off the train here at

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Melbourne Central and with skeptic Steve

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Robert Steve we're making our way

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somehow in this maze we're making our

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way to the State Library to continue

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researching the great prediction project

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that's it all right

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I'm very busy here in Melbourne today

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now I've come to Melbourne because the

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state library here in Melbourne has back

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issues of a magazine called new idea

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which I guess I believe would have been

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vaguely or generally categorized under

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the women's interest group of magazines

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although these days I'm not sure if

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that's a term you would you would use I

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think you get the idea either other

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magazines like this include the

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Australian Women's Weekly Woman's Day

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magazine mega serve various others over

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the years but these magazines are the

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sort of magazine that have predictions

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psychic predictions psychic columns

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every every issue has a psychic two or

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three circuit columns but every now and

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then they will predict things and we've

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gone way back to issues in 1999 and

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we're going right through the years to

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the present day it's a better solid

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three-day job two of us poring over

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hundreds upon hundreds of issues of the

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magazine and extracting the pages well

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photographing the pages with the

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predictions for my card on the machine

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here to get out and then it's a matter

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of looking at those predictions trying

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to make sense of them putting them into

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the spreadsheet and

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when we go hello up here yeah all right

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this escalator I must say I'm very

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impressed of the State Library of

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Victoria I think it's a wonderful place

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it's a good for research and know the

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old building very historic yeah and all

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you have to do is go online which is

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quite easy oh we've got someone coming

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up and put in the magazines you're

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requesting in this case the new idea the

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year and the months and so on and ten

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minutes later they just appear magically

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on a shelf we collect them and start

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pouring through them it's a good system

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but this is certainly a long project I

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originally thought this project would

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just take me last year to do yeah but as

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the project went on and hundreds and

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hundreds of predictions came in through

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lots of research yeah it's turning into

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we're just coming up the escalators here

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at Melbourne central train station

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beneath a glorious historical shock

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tower which is now enclosed under a huge

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glass dome it's quite impressive it's

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oh well on to the library we've worked

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our way up to the street level here

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there goes a Melbourne tram right in

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front of it and there it is

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directly across from the State Library

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of Victoria beautifully beautiful

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glorious sunny day here in Melbourne yes

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for the police oh yeah the police here

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see the Sun perks to be your skipped if

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you get to do strange things like come

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to Melbourne to do research I can come

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to Melbourne anyway this is Swanson

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street with parsley on our crossing over

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we're holding up the trams earlier all

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Steve's just pointing out a work of art

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to me here it looks like a sunken plinth

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yeah right into the pavement it all

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right

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let's walk past the statue this statue

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over here the dragon son George and the

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dragon statues there's a Joan of Arc

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statue which is odd there you go

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a surplus Joan of Arc statute or what

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are we going to do with this Joan of Arc

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statue oh it's the Australians that's

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right

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and okay we're walking up the main steps

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here now off the street up into the

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library it's off there's a giant statue

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of Sir Edmund berry very impressive no

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no the looking man some more steps Joan

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of Arc is on our right and some George

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we're walking now under the giant

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columns to enter the front door of the

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library here we go into the through the

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glass door okay not many ppl just open

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into the Information Center which is the

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where they have the tables in the

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research area here we are it's not too

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many people here at the moment which is

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good and let's see if we can find a good

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yeah tables fine in fact why don't we

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take that far table over there it's near

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where the magazines are anyway and right

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oh good we've got a table to themselves

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if I walk back here to the shelf nothing

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nothing no they're not waiting for it

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are these them Roberts here it is found

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it

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these two volumes they're huge volumes

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bound and leather of all the back issues

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of the new idea magazine so here we go

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let's see ah so this one at random I've

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so the process is you open the magazine

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you go straight to the front page you

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look at the front page to see if there's

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anything on it that says something along

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the lines of the psychic predictions for

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the year or something Sting's

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okay more yet and then go to the index

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page so here we are index page is about

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three or four pages in and quickly

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scanning the whole index if anything

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jumping out like psychic predictions or

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are UFOs or monsters or anything like

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that we have a look at that page

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otherwise it's straight to the back

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section which is normally after page 100

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here in the index that says your spirit

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psychic answers and weekly stars and

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it's always worth looking at that

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quickly for sometimes predictions for

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celebrities pop up there other things

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like that and once we find something we

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labeled so we know who made the

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prediction and when and so on and so on

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well Steve we've got a day's work ahead

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of us you ordered the 1945 Omega zero

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well we're a couple of hours into it

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this morning

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not not too many things are coming up

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the odd prediction here and there and

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00:15:14,100 --> 00:15:11,540
the odd story involving psychics but one

277
00:15:16,470 --> 00:15:14,110
of the current

278
00:15:17,690 --> 00:15:16,480
people contributing to the issues in

279
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where are we

280
00:15:23,910 --> 00:15:22,180
2007 of new idea looking at is a an

281
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astrologer by the name of Karen Moore

282
00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:24,339
gold

283
00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:27,570
and most of this stuff's pretty

284
00:15:32,910 --> 00:15:30,730
lightweight I suppose Scorpio for

285
00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:32,920
example you'll have to think on your

286
00:15:38,460 --> 00:15:35,250
feet respond in the moment and avoid

287
00:15:40,710 --> 00:15:38,470
trying to plan too far ahead with an

288
00:15:43,350 --> 00:15:40,720
unusual undertaking or issue with your

289
00:15:46,170 --> 00:15:43,360
children this sort of stuff very um

290
00:15:48,269 --> 00:15:46,180
nondescript but she does make celebrity

291
00:15:49,829 --> 00:15:48,279
predictions but uh most of them are

292
00:15:54,509 --> 00:15:49,839
unusable because they're they're more

293
00:16:00,170 --> 00:15:54,519
like personality readings really here's

294
00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:00,180
a good example this is from August 2007

295
00:16:09,180 --> 00:16:04,050
her predictions from Michael Jackson

296
00:16:12,690 --> 00:16:09,190
intense obsessive erratic secretive born

297
00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:12,700
on August 29th 1958 Michael Jackson has

298
00:16:15,389 --> 00:16:13,570
a horoscope

299
00:16:17,639 --> 00:16:15,399
that's a blend of extreme elements

300
00:16:21,090 --> 00:16:17,649
reflecting the complexity originality

301
00:16:24,389 --> 00:16:21,100
and contradictions in his nature he has

302
00:16:27,030 --> 00:16:24,399
flashes of genius and grand visions but

303
00:16:30,389 --> 00:16:27,040
reality and imagination also become

304
00:16:35,650 --> 00:16:30,399
blurred his gentle moon in Pisces really

305
00:16:40,230 --> 00:16:38,080
so I'm not even going to bother adding

306
00:16:42,490 --> 00:16:40,240
that to the catalogue because that's

307
00:16:44,140 --> 00:16:42,500
what can you do with them it's

308
00:16:47,230 --> 00:16:44,150
completely vague but that's a problem

309
00:16:48,010 --> 00:16:47,240
with a lot of these so-called

310
00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:48,020
predictions

311
00:17:00,580 --> 00:16:56,710
contrary to popular belief not all

312
00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:00,590
libraries are quiet this one seems to

313
00:17:03,940 --> 00:17:02,330
tolerate a certain amount of talking and

314
00:17:05,590 --> 00:17:03,950
noise which is okay it's not too

315
00:17:07,900 --> 00:17:05,600
distracting there's a tour guide in here

316
00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:07,910
at the moment so the two of God is

317
00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:09,410
busily telling everybody about the

318
00:17:16,329 --> 00:17:12,890
wonders of the library just looking

319
00:17:18,220 --> 00:17:16,339
through all these magazines and of

320
00:17:20,199 --> 00:17:18,230
course one of the regular features under

321
00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:20,209
the psychics and clairvoyant directory

322
00:17:29,170 --> 00:17:23,290
section really adds the paid advertising

323
00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:29,180
for mostly almost exclusively I think

324
00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:32,810
dial-up psychic lines absolute soul

325
00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:35,690
secrets 24 hours for your convenience

326
00:17:41,940 --> 00:17:38,890
psychic readings with Archangel Michael

327
00:17:44,290 --> 00:17:41,950
yeah it's pretty exclusive in them

328
00:17:48,570 --> 00:17:44,300
destinies spiritual psychics

329
00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:52,600
although the word psychic is spelt

330
00:17:56,770 --> 00:17:54,610
psychic with an apostrophe s at the end

331
00:18:04,090 --> 00:17:56,780
international world-class psychic

332
00:18:10,500 --> 00:18:08,380
melissa's and genuine psychics but she's

333
00:18:16,150 --> 00:18:10,510
letting us know they're genuine

334
00:18:19,180 --> 00:18:16,160
Christopher's angelic mediums another

335
00:18:21,580 --> 00:18:19,190
one's psychic secrets unbelievable

336
00:18:25,810 --> 00:18:21,590
from only a dollar 95 a minute well it's

337
00:18:27,730 --> 00:18:25,820
more expensive than that now here's

338
00:18:33,090 --> 00:18:27,740
another one current top 10 clairvoyance

339
00:18:38,049 --> 00:18:35,830
holy videos it's all there

340
00:18:39,700 --> 00:18:38,059
a break-in now our study our research

341
00:18:41,409 --> 00:18:39,710
brings us to the top level of the

342
00:18:43,870 --> 00:18:41,419
library which is much bigger than I

343
00:18:46,149 --> 00:18:43,880
thought delivery's huge where they have

344
00:18:48,970 --> 00:18:46,159
on display here behind this glass

345
00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:48,980
cabinet is the actual armor worn by

346
00:18:53,830 --> 00:18:50,330
Ritter red Kelly

347
00:18:56,590 --> 00:18:53,840
Ned Kelly Kelly is the actual armor worn

348
00:18:59,320 --> 00:18:56,600
by Ned Kelly Ned Kelly's our right in

349
00:19:02,470 --> 00:18:59,330
front of us with a boot yeah hurry one

350
00:19:04,570 --> 00:19:02,480
here to hop he had to he he was

351
00:19:09,340 --> 00:19:04,580
certainly caught on up and we can see

352
00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:09,350
where the armor has bullet marks from

353
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:17,080
it's it's quite interesting to see this

354
00:19:21,580 --> 00:19:20,210
suit Obama because being Australian you

355
00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:21,590
sort of know about this all your life

356
00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:23,570
Ned Kelly any suit of armor but to see

357
00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:30,560
an unexpected surprise here in the

358
00:19:37,380 --> 00:19:33,450
Melbourne the State Library of Victoria

359
00:19:42,270 --> 00:19:39,390
it's many hours later it's nearly 6

360
00:19:44,010 --> 00:19:42,280
o'clock in the evening of us count of

361
00:19:45,510 --> 00:19:44,020
how many issues we've gone through we've

362
00:19:48,030 --> 00:19:45,520
ordered all the remaining ones we need

363
00:19:50,370 --> 00:19:48,040
on a trolley and there are many to go

364
00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:50,380
through yet we're somewhere in the

365
00:19:58,260 --> 00:19:56,290
middle of the 2011 at the moment and we

366
00:20:02,370 --> 00:19:58,270
noticed that now this magazine new idea

367
00:20:04,230 --> 00:20:02,380
of hired Alison devar and John Edward to

368
00:20:06,260 --> 00:20:04,240
give advice and they also have a destiny

369
00:20:09,539 --> 00:20:06,270
page and this is an interesting one

370
00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:09,549
wills and Kate lines don't lie it's all

371
00:20:13,380 --> 00:20:12,250
about their palm prints well I suppose

372
00:20:17,580 --> 00:20:13,390
they waive enough so they've got

373
00:20:20,460 --> 00:20:17,590
photographs see the different psychics

374
00:20:22,230 --> 00:20:20,470
come and go from the magazine or their

375
00:20:25,110 --> 00:20:22,240
column gets short small or the smaller

376
00:20:27,289 --> 00:20:25,120
they finally vanish you know yeah and

377
00:20:35,450 --> 00:20:27,299
some come for a few issues and disappear

378
00:20:45,890 --> 00:20:35,460
it's interesting and the survey I

379
00:20:46,100 --> 00:20:45,900
have met a ghost and we go done for the

380
00:20:51,860 --> 00:20:46,110
day

381
00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:51,870
same the same doorway under the same

382
00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:53,290
columns

383
00:20:58,980 --> 00:20:54,610
[Music]

384
00:21:00,060 --> 00:20:58,990
the sun's going down son George and Joan

385
00:21:03,810 --> 00:21:00,070
of Arc are still there and the

386
00:21:05,910 --> 00:21:03,820
skateboard is a skating bastard so it's

387
00:21:07,830 --> 00:21:05,920
not bad being skeptical research Steve

388
00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:07,840
it's interesting first good fun you get

389
00:21:12,540 --> 00:21:09,730
some nice places in Melville and have a

390
00:21:15,570 --> 00:21:12,550
nice lunch and look looks who new idea

391
00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:15,580
magazine read all about Tom Cruise and

392
00:21:22,140 --> 00:21:18,370
Nicole Kidman and Prince William and

393
00:21:23,940 --> 00:21:22,150
Kate and Camilla in northern normal what

394
00:21:26,130 --> 00:21:23,950
I see there's only about twenty or

395
00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:26,140
thirty people who ever figure in it the

396
00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:29,650
same people come round and round I think

397
00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:30,730
they're the people they know the phone

398
00:21:35,100 --> 00:21:33,370
numbers off I think you're right and now

399
00:21:37,590 --> 00:21:35,110
it's time to go home and crack open a

400
00:21:39,630 --> 00:21:37,600
nice bottle bread I reckon yeah to the

401
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:39,640
strains of mark who's the busker hello

402
00:21:44,570 --> 00:22:12,019
[Music]

403
00:22:19,139 --> 00:22:16,109
dr. Harriet Hall MD no into thousands as

404
00:22:22,259 --> 00:22:19,149
the skeptic a retired family physician

405
00:22:24,329 --> 00:22:22,269
and former Air Force flight surgeon she

406
00:22:26,029 --> 00:22:24,339
writes about medicine so-called

407
00:22:29,899 --> 00:22:26,039
complementary and alternative medicine

408
00:22:32,999 --> 00:22:29,909
science pakery and critical thinking

409
00:22:35,249 --> 00:22:33,009
Harriet now has a free course a series

410
00:22:38,609 --> 00:22:35,259
of 10 video lectures on science-based

411
00:22:40,619 --> 00:22:38,619
medicine and alternative medicine the

412
00:22:42,749 --> 00:22:40,629
videos and an accompanying course guide

413
00:22:47,549 --> 00:22:42,759
can be found by following the link at

414
00:22:52,189 --> 00:22:47,559
skeptic info or by visiting web brandy

415
00:22:55,939 --> 00:22:52,199
org slash educational - modules dot

416
00:22:58,169 --> 00:22:55,949
html' topics covered in the series are

417
00:22:59,579 --> 00:22:58,179
science-based medicine vs.

418
00:23:03,199 --> 00:22:59,589
evidence-based medicine

419
00:23:06,479 --> 00:23:03,209
what is Kam chiropractic acupuncture

420
00:23:09,269 --> 00:23:06,489
homeopathy naturopathy and herbal

421
00:23:11,999 --> 00:23:09,279
medicine energy medicine miscellaneous

422
00:23:14,969 --> 00:23:12,009
alternatives pitfalls in research and

423
00:23:16,489 --> 00:23:14,979
science based medicine in the media and

424
00:23:18,899 --> 00:23:16,499
politics

425
00:23:21,329 --> 00:23:18,909
Harriett covers each topic in a

426
00:23:24,599 --> 00:23:21,339
matter-of-fact no-nonsense way that

427
00:23:26,700 --> 00:23:24,609
shorter educate and entertain skeptic

428
00:23:44,620 --> 00:23:26,710
dot info

429
00:23:51,830 --> 00:23:48,039
you might remember last week I told you

430
00:23:53,990 --> 00:23:51,840
of the project by the Australian

431
00:23:56,180 --> 00:23:54,000
skeptics to digitize and publish all the

432
00:23:57,650 --> 00:23:56,190
back issues of the magazine the skeptic

433
00:24:01,130 --> 00:23:57,660
the journal from Australian skeptics

434
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:01,140
quite a long process I really started

435
00:24:10,130 --> 00:24:07,530
way back in 2001 when I digitized many

436
00:24:12,260 --> 00:24:10,140
issues that were available then for

437
00:24:15,140 --> 00:24:12,270
something called the great skeptic CD

438
00:24:19,310 --> 00:24:15,150
all very new and cutting stuff way back

439
00:24:21,110 --> 00:24:19,320
in 2001 and here is a little news item

440
00:24:23,950 --> 00:24:21,120
that's just appeared on the skeptics our

441
00:24:27,260 --> 00:24:23,960
website at skeptics comdataís you

442
00:24:30,380 --> 00:24:27,270
skeptic magazine back issues online and

443
00:24:32,930 --> 00:24:30,390
free Australian skeptics has digitized

444
00:24:35,060 --> 00:24:32,940
all the back issues of the skeptic

445
00:24:39,529 --> 00:24:35,070
magazine going back to its first issue

446
00:24:42,620 --> 00:24:39,539
in 1981 and these are now available for

447
00:24:45,230 --> 00:24:42,630
free download from the magazine page of

448
00:24:47,360 --> 00:24:45,240
the Australian skeptics website the only

449
00:24:50,060 --> 00:24:47,370
exceptions are the most recent four

450
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:50,070
issues which are kept exclusively for

451
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:52,770
subscribers although sample articles for

452
00:24:57,649 --> 00:24:54,770
even those issues are also available

453
00:24:59,810 --> 00:24:57,659
this is the result of a concerted effort

454
00:25:01,880 --> 00:24:59,820
by Australian skeptics Inc and we

455
00:25:04,730 --> 00:25:01,890
believe that offering complete back

456
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:04,740
issues of virtually the entire run of a

457
00:25:10,570 --> 00:25:08,490
skeptical publication for free is unique

458
00:25:12,590 --> 00:25:10,580
in the skeptical community

459
00:25:14,510 --> 00:25:12,600
richardsaunders committee member and

460
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:14,520
former president of Australian skeptics

461
00:25:19,070 --> 00:25:16,530
who was instrumental in digitizing the

462
00:25:21,799 --> 00:25:19,080
printed issues along with current

463
00:25:23,630 --> 00:25:21,809
president Iran's again quote the

464
00:25:25,940 --> 00:25:23,640
magazine is the second oldest

465
00:25:28,730 --> 00:25:25,950
english-speaking skeptical magazine in

466
00:25:31,220 --> 00:25:28,740
the world in quote Saunders says it's

467
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:31,230
funny to quote myself quote it was a

468
00:25:36,289 --> 00:25:33,090
pretty basic production in the first

469
00:25:39,350 --> 00:25:36,299
years with literally cut and paste

470
00:25:41,750 --> 00:25:39,360
photocopy by a dedicated crew of

471
00:25:44,210 --> 00:25:41,760
volunteers we're happy to say that the

472
00:25:46,419 --> 00:25:44,220
process has improved dramatically over

473
00:25:49,490 --> 00:25:46,429
these through increasingly sophisticated

474
00:25:51,380 --> 00:25:49,500
publishing technology cleaning up or the

475
00:25:53,510 --> 00:25:51,390
printing and production imperfections of

476
00:25:57,900 --> 00:25:53,520
those early issues has been a long

477
00:25:59,880 --> 00:25:57,910
process in some cases it meant finally

478
00:26:01,260 --> 00:25:59,890
new copies of the photography and

479
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:01,270
clippings that we use

480
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:03,850
there's illustrations which has been a

481
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:05,170
time-consuming job

482
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:08,770
albeit a labor of love in quota readers

483
00:26:12,450 --> 00:26:10,450
can now see how these skeptical movement

484
00:26:15,570 --> 00:26:12,460
in Australia has developed over four

485
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:15,580
decades as reflected in the pages of the

486
00:26:20,700 --> 00:26:18,250
magazine from health and medicine to

487
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:20,710
psychics and clairvoyance Yowies cults

488
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:23,410
pseudoscience and the paranormal there

489
00:26:31,170 --> 00:26:27,610
is a wealth of information in the 144

490
00:26:32,970 --> 00:26:31,180
issues now available in addition to the

491
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:32,980
individual issues there are two

492
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:35,770
compendium publications in the beginning

493
00:26:40,830 --> 00:26:39,010
and the second coming which collated

494
00:26:42,870 --> 00:26:40,840
articles from the first ten years of the

495
00:26:46,050 --> 00:26:42,880
skeptic according to a number of themes

496
00:26:49,170 --> 00:26:46,060
each of which is available separately of

497
00:26:51,390 --> 00:26:49,180
course the skeptic continues to be

498
00:26:54,810 --> 00:26:51,400
published every quarter and readers can

499
00:26:57,840 --> 00:26:54,820
subscribe to coming new issues via our

500
00:27:00,740 --> 00:26:57,850
online shop although you will have to

501
00:27:05,380 --> 00:27:03,169
and as I mentioned last week what I've

502
00:27:10,610 --> 00:27:05,390
done is I've put all those back issues

503
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:10,620
on my iPad on a recent flight down to

504
00:27:16,159 --> 00:27:12,570
Melbourne I was able to sit back and

505
00:27:30,710 --> 00:27:16,169
just dump through many many articles and

506
00:27:33,169 --> 00:27:30,720
stories the skeptic magazine the journal

507
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:33,179
from Australian skeptics subscribe

508
00:27:41,060 --> 00:27:35,610
online to the world's second oldest

509
00:27:44,149 --> 00:27:41,070
skeptical magazine visit WWF XCOM 2 and

510
00:27:47,810 --> 00:27:44,159
click the publication's link you can

511
00:27:51,110 --> 00:27:47,820
also find there over 30 years on back

512
00:27:59,440 --> 00:27:51,120
issues free to download the skeptic

513
00:27:59,450 --> 00:28:04,570
[Music]

514
00:28:10,530 --> 00:28:07,750
on my recent trip to Melbourne I took

515
00:28:14,470 --> 00:28:10,540
time out to interview dr. Steve Roberts

516
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:14,480
for many years continuing the Australian

517
00:28:20,650 --> 00:28:17,810
skeptic spokesman on matters revolving

518
00:28:23,740 --> 00:28:20,660
around UFOs and strange phenomena like

519
00:28:26,830 --> 00:28:23,750
that and we chatted about his UFO

520
00:28:29,530 --> 00:28:26,840
experiences over the years I took the

521
00:28:31,270 --> 00:28:29,540
opportunity to interview dr. Steve for

522
00:28:32,860 --> 00:28:31,280
an archival project the Australian

523
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:32,870
skeptics are doing at the moment where

524
00:28:39,610 --> 00:28:35,650
we video prominent members of the

525
00:28:41,230 --> 00:28:39,620
organisation to get on record their

526
00:28:43,090 --> 00:28:41,240
thoughts and opinions and their

527
00:28:46,210 --> 00:28:43,100
recollections of the early days of the

528
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:46,220
organisation following that I'll read

529
00:28:50,650 --> 00:28:49,130
out the item we discovered from the

530
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:50,660
truth magazine

531
00:29:08,680 --> 00:28:54,410
way back in 1989 but here's dr. Steve

532
00:29:10,330 --> 00:29:08,690
Roberts yeah other people claimed that

533
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:10,340
how can somebody be an expert on

534
00:29:15,370 --> 00:29:12,770
something that is unknown but yeah I

535
00:29:18,580 --> 00:29:15,380
mean I look I was a UFO believer when I

536
00:29:20,980 --> 00:29:18,590
was a kid I'll fess up on this I thought

537
00:29:23,380 --> 00:29:20,990
there was something going on I believed

538
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:23,390
I have respect for books and you can get

539
00:29:27,550 --> 00:29:25,490
UFO books you could at the time you

540
00:29:29,980 --> 00:29:27,560
certainly can't now and I thought if

541
00:29:32,790 --> 00:29:29,990
some of you did book it's true and I

542
00:29:35,860 --> 00:29:32,800
thought there's something happening and

543
00:29:39,580 --> 00:29:35,870
if you don't chase up the legends too

544
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:39,590
far you can believe that the problem was

545
00:29:43,300 --> 00:29:41,690
we had a really group at my university

546
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:43,310
that was studying this

547
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:44,690
we still got hold of all the UFO

548
00:29:51,730 --> 00:29:47,450
sightings that we got all of the video

549
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:51,740
archives of UFO sightings and well first

550
00:29:57,220 --> 00:29:54,290
are for six years of archives to be

551
00:29:59,530 --> 00:29:57,230
there's about that much paper Connie so

552
00:30:01,990 --> 00:29:59,540
where's the rest of it well that's it

553
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:02,000
that's what there is it's not this whole

554
00:30:07,570 --> 00:30:04,490
UFO store he comes on a hundred

555
00:30:11,470 --> 00:30:07,580
sightings that which were easier clearly

556
00:30:12,670 --> 00:30:11,480
just garbage fuzzy fuzzy lights or funny

557
00:30:15,810 --> 00:30:12,680
feeling or something

558
00:30:18,190 --> 00:30:15,820
the some had some guts in them

559
00:30:19,930 --> 00:30:18,200
but some though none of the famous

560
00:30:21,730 --> 00:30:19,940
sightings in there that came up later on

561
00:30:24,430 --> 00:30:21,740
you had this interest long before you

562
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:24,440
came to Australia oh yeah yeah I was 15

563
00:30:28,090 --> 00:30:25,850
you know I thought there's something

564
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:28,100
going on so we thought we'd study it we

565
00:30:32,490 --> 00:30:30,650
got to get a uni as I saying the big

566
00:30:34,870 --> 00:30:32,500
mistake was we looked at the evidence

567
00:30:36,250 --> 00:30:34,880
the first wasn't much evidence the

568
00:30:39,010 --> 00:30:36,260
secondly what there was was not very

569
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:39,020
good and we went to some UFO meetings of

570
00:30:43,390 --> 00:30:41,690
the UFO research Association there's

571
00:30:47,290 --> 00:30:43,400
some strange people at these meetings

572
00:30:50,350 --> 00:30:47,300
and we all became skeptical you know we

573
00:30:51,790 --> 00:30:50,360
want to start with they had a boat could

574
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:51,800
see the Loch Ness monster we had a film

575
00:30:56,950 --> 00:30:53,570
with it it's fairly plausible this film

576
00:30:59,200 --> 00:30:56,960
team Dinsdale and we saw we saw the film

577
00:31:01,060 --> 00:30:59,210
it could be the Loch Ness monster a

578
00:31:03,820 --> 00:31:01,070
number of questions arise you know what

579
00:31:06,010 --> 00:31:03,830
does it eat and he's there more than one

580
00:31:09,340 --> 00:31:06,020
you know and why haven't we got other

581
00:31:11,380 --> 00:31:09,350
films and you know and so on but could

582
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:11,390
this be something else what is the

583
00:31:16,180 --> 00:31:14,210
object really to them to being awesome

584
00:31:20,350 --> 00:31:16,190
basically closer they can really do you

585
00:31:22,180 --> 00:31:20,360
think there was a lot but yeah we became

586
00:31:25,780 --> 00:31:22,190
skeptical was long before skeptics were

587
00:31:27,490 --> 00:31:25,790
invented so when I hear a UFO sighting

588
00:31:30,250 --> 00:31:27,500
you think well is that there is it more

589
00:31:32,980 --> 00:31:30,260
likely that there are aliens flying

590
00:31:35,169 --> 00:31:32,990
around the earth doing things or more

591
00:31:42,070 --> 00:31:35,179
like that somebody just misinterpreted

592
00:31:43,810 --> 00:31:42,080
what you saw and yeah so I think to be

593
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:43,820
skeptical of UFOs you have to learn all

594
00:31:47,590 --> 00:31:45,650
the stories you know there was a

595
00:31:49,930 --> 00:31:47,600
sighting in Windlesham forest in 1980

596
00:31:52,180 --> 00:31:49,940
you have to know what that was and where

597
00:31:55,330 --> 00:31:52,190
it was and what it was like and what the

598
00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:55,340
inspiration is the the wacko story of it

599
00:32:00,430 --> 00:31:57,290
and the you know the believer story and

600
00:32:02,350 --> 00:32:00,440
the scientific fact of it you know the

601
00:32:04,870 --> 00:32:02,360
Jimmy Carter saw you further this is

602
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:04,880
true there's an explanation which is is

603
00:32:09,610 --> 00:32:06,890
not well known but whose manipulation of

604
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:09,620
what he saw and used to learn all that

605
00:32:14,470 --> 00:32:12,050
and when you talk these people they it's

606
00:32:15,340 --> 00:32:14,480
like talking to get about creationism so

607
00:32:17,110 --> 00:32:15,350
what about this one

608
00:32:18,669 --> 00:32:17,120
you know what about this so do you have

609
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:18,679
to know all these i well that was that

610
00:32:22,810 --> 00:32:20,090
was a hoax oh that was somebody was

611
00:32:24,370 --> 00:32:22,820
identifying that was something I want

612
00:32:27,090 --> 00:32:24,380
this one oh I don't know about that one

613
00:32:29,220 --> 00:32:27,100
oh you don't know about that one oh well

614
00:32:31,260 --> 00:32:29,230
got the upper edges you see this is

615
00:32:33,330 --> 00:32:31,270
proof as you foes and you don't know

616
00:32:36,510 --> 00:32:33,340
you know you get sunk no Skipton

617
00:32:38,909 --> 00:32:36,520
burglars all betray me stuff that's how

618
00:32:41,010 --> 00:32:38,919
I became the UFO expert it's not long

619
00:32:44,700 --> 00:32:41,020
after you joined the Australian skeptics

620
00:32:48,210 --> 00:32:44,710
in Canberra in Melbourne you were called

621
00:32:50,130 --> 00:32:48,220
upon by the skeptics to represent them

622
00:32:53,070 --> 00:32:50,140
when the media came calling

623
00:32:54,810 --> 00:32:53,080
um yeah other other people did as well

624
00:32:57,750 --> 00:32:54,820
Colleen Kay the professor of astronomy

625
00:33:00,000 --> 00:32:57,760
he was active in that William Blake of

626
00:33:01,380 --> 00:33:00,010
Hamlet Barry Williams could handle it he

627
00:33:04,140 --> 00:33:01,390
depends which town you're in and Barry's

628
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:04,150
in Sydney Connie Kay was in Newcastle I

629
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:07,450
was in Melbourne I was like on to tell

630
00:33:11,340 --> 00:33:09,730
you a couple of times and was called up

631
00:33:14,490 --> 00:33:11,350
a couple of times or eventually got

632
00:33:16,649 --> 00:33:14,500
passed to me when you first stories now

633
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:16,659
just you can interpret each one as they

634
00:33:23,610 --> 00:33:21,130
come in you know very very very indeed

635
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:23,620
now because could people have mobile

636
00:33:28,110 --> 00:33:25,210
phones with cameras in them or mobile

637
00:33:38,159 --> 00:33:28,120
phones and that just killed it now the

638
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:38,169
other day you know one truth here and

639
00:33:44,669 --> 00:33:40,450
which was really a trashy magazine

640
00:33:46,860 --> 00:33:44,679
horse-racing and pornography and and

641
00:33:57,539 --> 00:33:46,870
what's he called a hysterical news you

642
00:34:00,750 --> 00:33:57,549
know aliens ate my baby and you called

643
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:00,760
him because there was a crop circle yeah

644
00:34:07,620 --> 00:34:03,730
all right um there was a fad for crop

645
00:34:09,270 --> 00:34:07,630
circles in Britain 19 1989 and a few

646
00:34:11,159 --> 00:34:09,280
before that not many but he got bigger

647
00:34:14,399 --> 00:34:11,169
and bigger in there someone 1990 was

648
00:34:16,340 --> 00:34:14,409
huge and it got even huger only in

649
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:16,350
Wiltshire in Britain which is hilly and

650
00:34:20,430 --> 00:34:19,090
hot and dry and has crops which in

651
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:20,440
August which is the height of the summer

652
00:34:24,270 --> 00:34:22,570
the crops standing you can bend the

653
00:34:26,430 --> 00:34:24,280
stores over easily and make a pattern in

654
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:26,440
it and then go up a hill nearby and look

655
00:34:29,580 --> 00:34:27,490
at it

656
00:34:32,190 --> 00:34:29,590
fill these circles were appearing

657
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:32,200
nephrite in the center the farmer gets

658
00:34:35,609 --> 00:34:34,210
apoplectic but until he realized he

659
00:34:38,940 --> 00:34:35,619
could put up a sign that says see the

660
00:34:40,139 --> 00:34:38,950
crop circle five quid and he gets more

661
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:40,149
money than the crop is

662
00:34:47,250 --> 00:34:45,010
a for having to harvest it and yeah

663
00:34:48,839 --> 00:34:47,260
there were a crop circle fans Colin

664
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:48,849
Andrews noticing noticeable you're still

665
00:34:51,389 --> 00:34:49,450
out there

666
00:34:53,849 --> 00:34:51,399
still trying to believe in them you know

667
00:34:55,919 --> 00:34:53,859
and um eventually till all made and

668
00:34:56,909 --> 00:34:55,929
confess to forging most of them and

669
00:34:59,130 --> 00:34:56,919
other people copied

670
00:35:01,260 --> 00:34:59,140
there's at least 20 groups in prison now

671
00:35:05,089 --> 00:35:01,270
I think making crop circles they meet in

672
00:35:07,650 --> 00:35:05,099
the same pub probably a fight stars and

673
00:35:11,430 --> 00:35:07,660
what appeared in Australia I mean we all

674
00:35:16,289 --> 00:35:11,440
like our own story so this is 1989 lady

675
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:16,299
no idea it was in the town in the Mallee

676
00:35:22,079 --> 00:35:19,210
in western Victoria match EU there were

677
00:35:23,670 --> 00:35:22,089
five or 12 five circles that appeared

678
00:35:26,490 --> 00:35:23,680
the Ottomans at five it appeared there

679
00:35:28,500 --> 00:35:26,500
was a picture of the farmer standing in

680
00:35:30,690 --> 00:35:28,510
one of them which was about the size of

681
00:35:31,710 --> 00:35:30,700
half the size in this room about you

682
00:35:33,599 --> 00:35:31,720
know four meters across

683
00:35:36,720 --> 00:35:33,609
there's ten feet across yes right yeah

684
00:35:37,950 --> 00:35:36,730
standing in that and um it's looking

685
00:35:39,240 --> 00:35:37,960
like other night could have just do

686
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:39,250
business and somebody doing a u-turn

687
00:35:44,250 --> 00:35:42,010
with a foil quad bike or something or

688
00:35:48,900 --> 00:35:44,260
them so he just made it for a long it

689
00:35:51,839 --> 00:35:48,910
was just a service the organ said there

690
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:51,849
were five and also that farm would seen

691
00:35:55,700 --> 00:35:53,650
a bright yellow light and also water had

692
00:35:57,690 --> 00:35:55,710
gone be seen from the farmers water tank

693
00:36:01,289 --> 00:35:57,700
they said that to be two years before

694
00:36:03,269 --> 00:36:01,299
the yellow light was six weeks later and

695
00:36:05,180 --> 00:36:03,279
water goes missing you know I thought I

696
00:36:07,289 --> 00:36:05,190
thought that tank was full was empty now

697
00:36:09,150 --> 00:36:07,299
maybe somebody left the tap on and

698
00:36:11,940 --> 00:36:09,160
didn't fess up to it it happens a lot on

699
00:36:13,769 --> 00:36:11,950
farms you know but you make an article

700
00:36:16,859 --> 00:36:13,779
out of it and I saw this in the truth or

701
00:36:18,870 --> 00:36:16,869
his brought to my attention and I rang

702
00:36:21,089 --> 00:36:18,880
them up and said well it's just um you

703
00:36:22,650 --> 00:36:21,099
know nothing to shout about really you

704
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:22,660
know there's no evidence except the

705
00:36:27,089 --> 00:36:24,970
circle that it was a UFO not you know

706
00:36:33,299 --> 00:36:27,099
UFO lands on farms the headline is

707
00:36:37,049 --> 00:36:33,309
saying yeah all over the front page yeah

708
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:37,059
and why I said well it no it was a UFO

709
00:36:40,650 --> 00:36:38,410
it could just be somebody else you

710
00:36:42,809 --> 00:36:40,660
contacted the reporter yeah

711
00:36:44,609 --> 00:36:42,819
John Pinckney right who was famous for

712
00:36:47,460 --> 00:36:44,619
digging up stories like this just joined

713
00:36:49,109 --> 00:36:47,470
the truce at the time and the UI doctor

714
00:36:49,650 --> 00:36:49,119
said well what would Steven moments know

715
00:36:52,259 --> 00:36:49,660
about

716
00:36:54,210 --> 00:36:52,269
you've never made it for circle in fact

717
00:36:56,309 --> 00:36:54,220
I have so I didn't bother replying to

718
00:36:57,870 --> 00:36:56,319
all this I say well I've seen it you

719
00:36:59,490 --> 00:36:57,880
haven't you've never made one you know

720
00:37:02,430 --> 00:36:59,500
the way you say it could be done what I

721
00:37:06,630 --> 00:37:02,440
have you know that a yr give you know it

722
00:37:08,490 --> 00:37:06,640
sells newspapers I tell ya that came and

723
00:37:11,099 --> 00:37:08,500
went that story but I saw the farmer

724
00:37:13,740 --> 00:37:11,109
come to a convention of crop circle fans

725
00:37:15,509 --> 00:37:13,750
are four hundred people in a new Colin

726
00:37:18,660 --> 00:37:15,519
Andrews giving a talk and the farm

727
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:18,670
owners of females 14 ARF everyone was

728
00:37:21,420 --> 00:37:20,650
seated the farmer who'd been flown down

729
00:37:24,779 --> 00:37:21,430
from the Mallee

730
00:37:26,670 --> 00:37:24,789
to Melbourne and wined and dined came in

731
00:37:29,099 --> 00:37:26,680
very attractively coiffed and made-up

732
00:37:31,650 --> 00:37:29,109
wearing a fur comes and he could sense

733
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:31,660
the vivint's in the room as if the Queen

734
00:37:35,579 --> 00:37:33,130
of England had come either which was a

735
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:35,589
similar experience and she was treated

736
00:37:40,079 --> 00:37:37,210
with enormous respect because he had

737
00:37:41,940 --> 00:37:40,089
this crop circle on her farm and I did

738
00:37:43,380 --> 00:37:41,950
say to officer like if you like I can

739
00:37:45,900 --> 00:37:43,390
give you the name and address of the man

740
00:37:47,700 --> 00:37:45,910
who made your crop circle so you know no

741
00:37:49,049 --> 00:37:47,710
I'd rather not find that out and so you

742
00:37:50,670 --> 00:37:49,059
know I like things the way they are

743
00:37:59,759 --> 00:37:50,680
thinking I like the fur coats and the

744
00:38:03,630 --> 00:37:59,769
the front seat you know still popular

745
00:38:06,150 --> 00:38:03,640
for a while but when do you think is the

746
00:38:08,220 --> 00:38:06,160
do you notice the decline in the

747
00:38:10,019 --> 00:38:08,230
popularity in reporting doesn't really

748
00:38:11,299 --> 00:38:10,029
tie in that closely with mobile phones

749
00:38:15,900 --> 00:38:11,309
yeah

750
00:38:19,019 --> 00:38:15,910
1993 onwards mobile phones available to

751
00:38:20,849 --> 00:38:19,029
the common man phones in cars in 1990

752
00:38:24,210 --> 00:38:20,859
the phone was so big you couldn't

753
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:24,220
measure in the car and we have one at

754
00:38:29,279 --> 00:38:26,170
work there's a heavy briefcase 20

755
00:38:31,740 --> 00:38:29,289
kilograms with the phone in it and then

756
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:31,750
1993 they began to be phoned you could

757
00:38:36,450 --> 00:38:34,930
actually carry on your person okay and

758
00:38:39,140 --> 00:38:36,460
there's an advert for it might else to

759
00:38:41,700 --> 00:38:39,150
us and so somebody in a field with a UFO

760
00:38:43,799 --> 00:38:41,710
and he had a phone and they were saying

761
00:38:45,390 --> 00:38:43,809
quick tell somebody yeah and that's

762
00:38:47,759 --> 00:38:45,400
that's a key the phenomena just died

763
00:38:49,470 --> 00:38:47,769
overnight you know because on suddenly

764
00:38:50,490 --> 00:38:49,480
people had these phones they couldn't

765
00:38:53,370 --> 00:38:50,500
take pictures but you could bring

766
00:38:56,019 --> 00:38:53,380
somebody up and say on you know mum is a

767
00:38:57,970 --> 00:38:56,029
UFO and thought my head now

768
00:38:59,680 --> 00:38:57,980
or whatever come here quick or something

769
00:39:01,299 --> 00:38:59,690
and then of course later they had

770
00:39:04,089 --> 00:39:01,309
cameras on the phone so now everybody

771
00:39:07,390 --> 00:39:04,099
has a camera yeah a new photo just died

772
00:39:10,089 --> 00:39:07,400
out you know I mean you're not contacted

773
00:39:13,180 --> 00:39:10,099
anymore by media about you like I am but

774
00:39:14,859 --> 00:39:13,190
there's no usually though you photos we

775
00:39:16,990 --> 00:39:14,869
suddenly sets fire to a garbage bag you

776
00:39:19,150 --> 00:39:17,000
you take the the garbage sack and set

777
00:39:21,339 --> 00:39:19,160
hold it upside down set for the bottom

778
00:39:23,829 --> 00:39:21,349
it'll fill the hot air and float off

779
00:39:26,230 --> 00:39:23,839
there's your UFO yeah gets in the media

780
00:39:29,650 --> 00:39:26,240
no the one I remember you didn't comment

781
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:29,660
on was ten twelve years ago was the

782
00:39:34,839 --> 00:39:33,170
beverage you ever yeah no just just for

783
00:39:39,490 --> 00:39:34,849
the sake of reminding people yeah that

784
00:39:41,019 --> 00:39:39,500
story that was in January 2004 January

785
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:41,029
anyway which is the height of summer

786
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:45,410
down here and somebody it's only one of

787
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:47,930
the council engineers has to go out of

788
00:39:52,510 --> 00:39:50,210
the year and photograph the level

789
00:39:54,519 --> 00:39:52,520
crossing working okay they take a film

790
00:39:56,500 --> 00:39:54,529
when the train comes showing the booms

791
00:39:58,870 --> 00:39:56,510
come up and down showing all the lights

792
00:40:00,370 --> 00:39:58,880
flashing and they then have a record

793
00:40:01,870 --> 00:40:00,380
that the crossing was working on that

794
00:40:02,740 --> 00:40:01,880
day every year we used to go and film

795
00:40:05,829 --> 00:40:02,750
the level crossing

796
00:40:07,870 --> 00:40:05,839
boom working and their views filming is

797
00:40:13,359 --> 00:40:07,880
boom going up and down mm-hmm

798
00:40:16,539 --> 00:40:13,369
the cross goes this UFO and yeah I was a

799
00:40:19,630 --> 00:40:16,549
JP and I have the original picture so

800
00:40:22,510 --> 00:40:19,640
sublease now suddenly I have the

801
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:22,520
original Seminole evidence myself you

802
00:40:26,589 --> 00:40:25,130
know I have the JPEG picture and that's

803
00:40:28,870 --> 00:40:26,599
all there is you know cuz normally get a

804
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:28,880
copy of a copy of a copy and you think

805
00:40:31,690 --> 00:40:30,170
well the originals gonna be better but

806
00:40:33,609 --> 00:40:31,700
no I've actually got the original and

807
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:33,619
there is a black object flying with a

808
00:40:40,329 --> 00:40:37,130
little white tail yeah now if you go

809
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:40,339
there the height of the summer and you

810
00:40:48,250 --> 00:40:42,770
interview people they're always doing

811
00:40:49,720 --> 00:40:48,260
that yeah and lo and behold a fly goes

812
00:40:51,819 --> 00:40:49,730
in front of the camera and that's that's

813
00:40:54,579 --> 00:40:51,829
why the UFOs out of focus and the level

814
00:40:56,349 --> 00:40:54,589
crossings in focus and the the size all

815
00:40:58,599 --> 00:40:56,359
matches up everything is right for a fly

816
00:41:01,180 --> 00:40:58,609
about three feet from the lens

817
00:41:02,410 --> 00:41:01,190
going across and of course your face is

818
00:41:04,779 --> 00:41:02,420
behind the camera so you actually

819
00:41:06,549 --> 00:41:04,789
wouldn't see it you will see that the

820
00:41:07,710 --> 00:41:06,559
fly the guy said at the time you didn't

821
00:41:08,940 --> 00:41:07,720
see anything

822
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:08,950
but when he looked at the photograph

823
00:41:13,710 --> 00:41:11,490
they must like the OD at the photo so

824
00:41:16,290 --> 00:41:13,720
what is the story what's the backstory

825
00:41:18,359 --> 00:41:16,300
of the sighting you know for every UFO

826
00:41:20,849 --> 00:41:18,369
picture you have this UFO picture and

827
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:20,859
there's gotta be a story say well did

828
00:41:24,720 --> 00:41:22,930
you see it did you hear the noise or

829
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:24,730
other people there what were you doing

830
00:41:29,579 --> 00:41:27,450
while you taking photographs in the sky

831
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:29,589
did you have to go and get the camera

832
00:41:34,380 --> 00:41:33,130
what is the story it's kind of odd that

833
00:41:35,550 --> 00:41:34,390
just when you've got the camera video

834
00:41:41,910 --> 00:41:35,560
and you're pointing it at the sky

835
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:41,920
oh you phone comes across you know so it

836
00:41:48,240 --> 00:41:44,530
filled a spot on the news otherwise it's

837
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:48,250
Man Bites Dog or you know laser scan

838
00:41:56,790 --> 00:41:50,530
with the Australian cricketer polishers

839
00:41:58,500 --> 00:41:56,800
cricket ball in short of New Zealand you

840
00:41:59,970 --> 00:41:58,510
phones are cute and no one's ever been

841
00:42:01,950 --> 00:41:59,980
harmed by a UFO

842
00:42:03,660 --> 00:42:01,960
I had duck tees say they haven't no

843
00:42:05,970 --> 00:42:03,670
one's being killed by you phone nobody's

844
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:05,980
flown an airplane into a skyscraper

845
00:42:18,750 --> 00:42:14,890
because of you folks yeah that's all

846
00:42:20,700 --> 00:42:18,760
very bucolic unfortunate of skipper's

847
00:42:22,559 --> 00:42:20,710
has become nasty in later years because

848
00:42:25,500 --> 00:42:22,569
there's nastier targets than flying

849
00:42:26,910 --> 00:42:25,510
saucers and astrologers but my mother

850
00:42:30,510 --> 00:42:26,920
miss those days anyway that was that

851
00:42:30,670 --> 00:42:30,520
yeah gonna be bad news they'll force

852
00:42:32,700 --> 00:42:30,680
[Music]

853
00:42:34,740 --> 00:42:32,710
[Applause]

854
00:42:38,770 --> 00:42:34,750
[Music]

855
00:42:44,650 --> 00:42:38,780
from the weekend truth newspaper dated

856
00:42:47,339 --> 00:42:44,660
the 16th of December 1989 scared

857
00:42:52,329 --> 00:42:47,349
Ozzy family tells truths John Pinkley

858
00:42:56,410 --> 00:42:52,339
UFO lands on farm world exclusive photos

859
00:42:59,200 --> 00:42:56,420
a giant UFO lifts this mysterious circle

860
00:43:01,780 --> 00:42:59,210
of flattened wheat and four others like

861
00:43:04,240 --> 00:43:01,790
it on a western Victorian farm according

862
00:43:07,390 --> 00:43:04,250
to frightened locals they tell of

863
00:43:12,790 --> 00:43:07,400
sightings sounds and terrified livestock

864
00:43:14,859 --> 00:43:12,800
full story more photos inside in fact

865
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:14,869
this is the front page of the newspaper

866
00:43:21,579 --> 00:43:18,770
only cost a dollar 20 and the picture

867
00:43:24,390 --> 00:43:21,589
shows our lady standing on the edge of a

868
00:43:29,380 --> 00:43:24,400
crop circle which is about 4 meters in

869
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:29,390
diameter we turn to page 4 UFO landing

870
00:43:36,309 --> 00:43:32,930
mystery sheep panicked by eerie light in

871
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:36,319
the fields exclusive report by John

872
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:39,170
Hinckley three frightened farmers

873
00:43:44,710 --> 00:43:42,650
believe a gigantic UFO landed last week

874
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:44,720
on their Victorian week property a

875
00:43:50,589 --> 00:43:48,410
pattern of five perfect circles in which

876
00:43:53,230 --> 00:43:50,599
unbroken wheat stalks swirl

877
00:43:57,039 --> 00:43:53,240
anti-clockwise have been found on the

878
00:43:59,559 --> 00:43:57,049
9,000 hectare farm West Park run by Max

879
00:44:02,950 --> 00:43:59,569
and Nancy jolly and their son Stuart

880
00:44:06,549 --> 00:44:02,960
aged 29 the startling discovery comes

881
00:44:09,630 --> 00:44:06,559
only four weeks after the family's 700

882
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:09,640
sheep were panicked by a huge yellow

883
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:12,770
object pulsating above the paddocks in

884
00:44:18,910 --> 00:44:16,130
western Victoria's Mally region first to

885
00:44:21,339 --> 00:44:18,920
notice the uncanny quote landing rings

886
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:21,349
end quote where Jali's neighbors Brian

887
00:44:26,349 --> 00:44:24,650
Finch and Austin grace quote they'd

888
00:44:29,230 --> 00:44:26,359
brought in an international combine

889
00:44:31,599 --> 00:44:29,240
harvester onto our property to strip

890
00:44:34,210 --> 00:44:31,609
wheat and quote Nancy jolly told me

891
00:44:36,250 --> 00:44:34,220
quote sitting in an elevated de cabin

892
00:44:37,870 --> 00:44:36,260
about five meters above the ground they

893
00:44:41,589 --> 00:44:37,880
spotted what everyone else had missed

894
00:44:43,870 --> 00:44:41,599
two large swirled circles of wheat about

895
00:44:46,630 --> 00:44:43,880
three meters in diameter surrounded by

896
00:44:49,660 --> 00:44:46,640
three smaller circles each of about one

897
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:49,670
meter obviously something exerting

898
00:44:55,210 --> 00:44:53,210
colossal forces set down there outside

899
00:44:58,030 --> 00:44:55,220
the circles you can scratch dirt up with

900
00:45:02,260 --> 00:44:58,040
your fingers but inside the ground is

901
00:45:05,380 --> 00:45:02,270
increasingly compressed like cement the

902
00:45:08,140 --> 00:45:05,390
weight appears to be woven almost like a

903
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:08,150
straw basket the stalks are quite

904
00:45:15,250 --> 00:45:11,810
amazingly undamaged with the grain fully

905
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:15,260
matured in the heads which suggests the

906
00:45:20,350 --> 00:45:18,050
landing might have occurred sometime

907
00:45:24,100 --> 00:45:20,360
last week in quote the mind-blowing

908
00:45:26,590 --> 00:45:24,110
circles discovery climaxes two years of

909
00:45:30,010 --> 00:45:26,600
mystery and fear for the jolly family in

910
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:30,020
November 1987 following sightings of

911
00:45:37,750 --> 00:45:33,530
eerie aerial lights Nancy found that the

912
00:45:40,510 --> 00:45:37,760
farm houses 40,000 liter water tank had

913
00:45:42,250 --> 00:45:40,520
been totally drained overnight quote we

914
00:45:46,350 --> 00:45:42,260
haven't a clue what happened and quota

915
00:45:50,050 --> 00:45:46,360
she said quote all we know is someone or

916
00:45:54,340 --> 00:45:50,060
something took every drop of our water

917
00:45:57,370 --> 00:45:54,350
main quota in 1981 I investigated

918
00:46:00,010 --> 00:45:57,380
several similar cases of UFO related

919
00:46:03,190 --> 00:46:00,020
water disappearances all were in

920
00:46:06,370 --> 00:46:03,200
northern Victoria in December 1988

921
00:46:09,220 --> 00:46:06,380
stuart jolly was shocked from sleep by a

922
00:46:13,650 --> 00:46:09,230
shattering noise outside his bedroom

923
00:46:16,870 --> 00:46:13,660
window subheading berserk quote I

924
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:16,880
thought the racket would puncture my

925
00:46:23,290 --> 00:46:20,570
eardrums and quote he recalled it was

926
00:46:25,630 --> 00:46:23,300
like the scream of jet engines revving

927
00:46:29,410 --> 00:46:25,640
up and down with the shrilling of

928
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:29,420
thousands of cicadas mixed in my dog

929
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:32,570
would normally have been on the spot and

930
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:35,090
barking but he seemed to have shot

931
00:46:40,810 --> 00:46:38,090
through and just for international

932
00:46:43,630 --> 00:46:40,820
listeners shot through means disappeared

933
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:43,640
more or less or run away I rushed

934
00:46:49,900 --> 00:46:45,890
outside but saw nothing the racket

935
00:46:51,610 --> 00:46:49,910
seemed to be coming from empty sky the

936
00:46:53,620 --> 00:46:51,620
jollies endured an even more bizarre

937
00:46:56,470 --> 00:46:53,630
brush with the unknown in August this

938
00:46:58,210 --> 00:46:56,480
year quote about nine o'clock one night

939
00:46:59,490 --> 00:46:58,220
I heard a commotion and went out to see

940
00:47:02,250 --> 00:46:59,500
what was happening

941
00:47:05,670 --> 00:47:02,260
in quotes Stuart said quote the trouble

942
00:47:07,770 --> 00:47:05,680
was centered on a sheep panic our 700

943
00:47:11,099 --> 00:47:07,780
ewes and lambs had gone berserk

944
00:47:14,820 --> 00:47:11,109
they were dashing around and bleating in

945
00:47:17,099 --> 00:47:14,830
total panic and then I saw why hovering

946
00:47:19,020 --> 00:47:17,109
above the paddock was a huge yellow

947
00:47:22,050 --> 00:47:19,030
light that seemed to be pulsating at

948
00:47:24,330 --> 00:47:22,060
first I thought someone was spotlighting

949
00:47:27,150 --> 00:47:24,340
our sheep but then I realized the light

950
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:27,160
was far too big for that also it was

951
00:47:34,260 --> 00:47:31,090
making a weird high-pitched noise like

952
00:47:38,580 --> 00:47:34,270
the blades of a helicopter with its

953
00:47:41,250 --> 00:47:38,590
engines off and slowing I'd never seen

954
00:47:42,990 --> 00:47:41,260
sheep go wild in that way before if a

955
00:47:44,630 --> 00:47:43,000
dog had been threatening them they

956
00:47:47,730 --> 00:47:44,640
simply would have huddled together

957
00:47:50,339 --> 00:47:47,740
reasonably calm and disciplined but this

958
00:47:51,990 --> 00:47:50,349
mob were stumbling all over the paddock

959
00:47:55,470 --> 00:47:52,000
I could see it was the light and the

960
00:47:57,750 --> 00:47:55,480
noise that were driving them crazy after

961
00:48:01,050 --> 00:47:57,760
a few more minutes of chaos the light

962
00:48:03,390 --> 00:48:01,060
started to move foolishly perhaps I got

963
00:48:05,370 --> 00:48:03,400
into the car to chase it but before I

964
00:48:08,339 --> 00:48:05,380
could start up it vanished behind the

965
00:48:12,390 --> 00:48:08,349
pine trees quote we went out with

966
00:48:15,030 --> 00:48:12,400
torches and again that means flashlights

967
00:48:18,870 --> 00:48:15,040
we went out with torches and were amazed

968
00:48:21,150 --> 00:48:18,880
to find a wedged tailed eagle with a

969
00:48:24,050 --> 00:48:21,160
wingspan of about two metres stumbling

970
00:48:28,109 --> 00:48:24,060
around in the paddock seemingly in shock

971
00:48:30,300 --> 00:48:28,119
and this is the story that Steve Roberts

972
00:48:33,720 --> 00:48:30,310
who just heard saw in the truth

973
00:48:38,670 --> 00:48:33,730
newspaper and contacted the reporter and

974
00:48:43,230 --> 00:48:38,680
a few days later in fact on December the

975
00:48:46,070 --> 00:48:43,240
23rd there was a follow up again we have

976
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:46,080
the same picture of the crop circle and

977
00:48:54,750 --> 00:48:50,650
the headline skeptic UFO proof hasn't

978
00:48:56,970 --> 00:48:54,760
cropped up story by Ricky Turner flatten

979
00:48:59,099 --> 00:48:56,980
crop circles found recently in a

980
00:49:00,980 --> 00:48:59,109
Victorian wheat crop could have been

981
00:49:04,530 --> 00:49:00,990
made by a man or men with a stick

982
00:49:06,690 --> 00:49:04,540
according to Australian sceptics Stephen

983
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:06,700
Roberts Melbourne UFO spokesman for

984
00:49:12,490 --> 00:49:09,010
Australian skeptics contacted truth

985
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:12,500
after our world exclusive story reported

986
00:49:17,050 --> 00:49:14,690
possible UFO activity that has

987
00:49:20,170 --> 00:49:17,060
frightened farmers in western Victoria's

988
00:49:22,900 --> 00:49:20,180
Maui district now a report featured

989
00:49:25,350 --> 00:49:22,910
pictures of large circles of wheat

990
00:49:29,020 --> 00:49:25,360
flattened in an anti-clockwise direction

991
00:49:31,050 --> 00:49:29,030
possibly where a craft landed and told

992
00:49:34,390 --> 00:49:31,060
of water tanks mysteriously emptied

993
00:49:37,090 --> 00:49:34,400
wheat farmers Max and Nancy jolly and

994
00:49:39,820 --> 00:49:37,100
their son Stuart believed a gigantic UFO

995
00:49:42,580 --> 00:49:39,830
landed on their 9,000 hectare property

996
00:49:45,130 --> 00:49:42,590
earlier this month and claimed the

997
00:49:48,010 --> 00:49:45,140
landing climaxes two years of UFO

998
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:48,020
activity in the area in August this year

999
00:49:53,410 --> 00:49:50,330
sheep on the farm were terrified by a

1000
00:49:56,260 --> 00:49:53,420
large orb of yellow light that hovered

1001
00:49:59,410 --> 00:49:56,270
above them before speeding off in

1002
00:50:02,320 --> 00:49:59,420
November 1987 following sightings of

1003
00:50:05,620 --> 00:50:02,330
eerie aerial lights nancy jolly found

1004
00:50:09,910 --> 00:50:05,630
the farm houses 40,000 liter water tank

1005
00:50:12,790 --> 00:50:09,920
had totally drained quote nonsense

1006
00:50:16,180 --> 00:50:12,800
end quote said mr. Robertson melbourne

1007
00:50:19,240 --> 00:50:16,190
computer systems analyst with a PhD in

1008
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:19,250
chemistry quote water doesn't get sucked

1009
00:50:25,570 --> 00:50:22,490
up by UFOs and it only disappears from a

1010
00:50:26,860 --> 00:50:25,580
tank when somebody steals it or the tank

1011
00:50:29,860 --> 00:50:26,870
springs a leak

1012
00:50:32,650 --> 00:50:29,870
what would a spacecraft do with

1013
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:32,660
thousands of gallons of water a water

1014
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:35,570
propelled spacecraft I don't think so

1015
00:50:41,170 --> 00:50:39,170
where's the hard evidence of a UFO there

1016
00:50:43,660 --> 00:50:41,180
have been so many of these circle

1017
00:50:46,540 --> 00:50:43,670
markings found that surely there would

1018
00:50:48,820 --> 00:50:46,550
be some hard evidence by now the thing

1019
00:50:51,550 --> 00:50:48,830
that makes these marks has never seen

1020
00:50:54,490 --> 00:50:51,560
we widely believe these strange circles

1021
00:50:57,400 --> 00:50:54,500
are made by men men with a stick and

1022
00:51:00,810 --> 00:50:57,410
even the largest ones could have easily

1023
00:51:03,690 --> 00:51:00,820
been made in about half an hour in quote

1024
00:51:06,550 --> 00:51:03,700
mr. Robert said claims of UFO activity

1025
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:06,560
gained credence because quote people

1026
00:51:12,550 --> 00:51:09,650
really want to believe in UFOs I would

1027
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:12,560
like to believe in UFOs and make contact

1028
00:51:17,380 --> 00:51:14,690
with other beings myself but until there

1029
00:51:19,270 --> 00:51:17,390
is some hard evidence and a fuzzy

1030
00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:19,280
photograph or a patch of ground that

1031
00:51:24,790 --> 00:51:22,130
anyone could have trampled just isn't

1032
00:51:26,020 --> 00:51:24,800
good enough we have to conclude the

1033
00:51:29,710 --> 00:51:26,030
obvious

1034
00:51:31,900 --> 00:51:29,720
there are no UFOs end quote and we have

1035
00:51:36,730 --> 00:51:31,910
a reply by the original reporter Pinkley

1036
00:51:38,890 --> 00:51:36,740
it says Pinkley how would you know truth

1037
00:51:41,590 --> 00:51:38,900
writer John Pinkley Australia's most

1038
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:41,600
famous UFO investigator has challenged

1039
00:51:48,060 --> 00:51:44,690
mr. Roberts or anyone else to duplicate

1040
00:51:51,850 --> 00:51:48,070
the circles found in Jolly's wheat farm

1041
00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:51,860
quote it can't be done by humans because

1042
00:51:57,550 --> 00:51:55,370
you can't bend wheat over like that when

1043
00:52:00,670 --> 00:51:57,560
it comes close to harvest and quote mr.

1044
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:00,680
pink we said quote the stalks snap and

1045
00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:03,770
that is the amazing thing with all these

1046
00:52:09,310 --> 00:52:06,530
circles not a single stalk is ever

1047
00:52:12,310 --> 00:52:09,320
snapped we have proven it can't be done

1048
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:12,320
unlike mr. Roberts we have taken the

1049
00:52:17,530 --> 00:52:14,810
trouble to study these circles and to

1050
00:52:20,170 --> 00:52:17,540
conduct some tests and quote mr. pink

1051
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:20,180
Lee said there have been dozens of

1052
00:52:24,340 --> 00:52:21,770
similar circles turning up all over

1053
00:52:27,300 --> 00:52:24,350
Victoria and reports from all over the

1054
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:27,310
world of huge amounts of stored water

1055
00:52:39,339 --> 00:52:36,140
and that story originally published in

1056
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:39,349
the truth newspaper now defunct in

1057
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:44,970
December 1989 and this was discovered as

1058
00:52:50,539 --> 00:52:48,210
we were conducting research at the State

1059
00:52:54,109 --> 00:52:50,549
Library of Victoria and this was all

1060
00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:54,119
coming off the archives of microfilm a

1061
00:53:10,170 --> 00:52:56,610
great yarn from years ago

1062
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:12,549
hi this is Ben Radford and this is

1063
00:53:16,390 --> 00:53:14,210
Pascual Romero from the squaring the

1064
00:53:18,220 --> 00:53:16,400
strange podcast every week my co-host

1065
00:53:20,650 --> 00:53:18,230
and I cast a skeptical eye at a

1066
00:53:22,599 --> 00:53:20,660
different topic monsters ghosts demons

1067
00:53:24,670 --> 00:53:22,609
mysteries and even current events are

1068
00:53:26,739 --> 00:53:24,680
dissected and discussed with a fun

1069
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:26,749
unscripted and skeptical take that

1070
00:53:30,819 --> 00:53:28,249
you're sure to enjoy find this is

1071
00:53:38,290 --> 00:53:30,829
squirting strange calm iTunes or on your

1072
00:53:38,300 --> 00:53:48,480
[Music]

1073
00:53:53,050 --> 00:53:50,710
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1074
00:53:55,150 --> 00:53:53,060
zone and a big big thank you to dr.

1075
00:53:58,540 --> 00:53:55,160
Steve Roberts and his wife Barbara for

1076
00:54:00,609 --> 00:53:58,550
having me stay over in their house and a

1077
00:54:03,250 --> 00:54:00,619
big THANK YOU to Steve especially for

1078
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:03,260
coming in with me every day our to the

1079
00:54:08,050 --> 00:54:05,690
library to help me with this research

1080
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:08,060
between the two of us had meant we got

1081
00:54:13,450 --> 00:54:11,810
through everything doubly quick I guess

1082
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:13,460
I would have been there for many more

1083
00:54:17,319 --> 00:54:15,530
days to get through everything but with

1084
00:54:20,290 --> 00:54:17,329
Steve Roberts by my side getting through

1085
00:54:20,980 --> 00:54:20,300
these issues of the magazine we we got

1086
00:54:22,690 --> 00:54:20,990
the job done

1087
00:54:24,810 --> 00:54:22,700
which meant thumbing through the

1088
00:54:27,700 --> 00:54:24,820
magazine look at the content pages and

1089
00:54:32,670 --> 00:54:27,710
photographing the articles in question

1090
00:54:37,720 --> 00:54:32,680
and in the end we had in the order of

1091
00:54:39,550 --> 00:54:37,730
240 items that we archived now they have

1092
00:54:41,890 --> 00:54:39,560
to be put into a spreadsheet and

1093
00:54:44,859 --> 00:54:41,900
analyzed and well the project goes on

1094
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:44,869
and as I mentioned last week I might be

1095
00:54:52,359 --> 00:54:48,890
I might be asking for help is some time

1096
00:54:55,839 --> 00:54:52,369
this year from listeners to help with

1097
00:54:58,120 --> 00:54:55,849
that project stay tuned but for this

1098
00:55:04,720 --> 00:54:58,130
week this is Richard Saunders signing

1099
00:55:06,790 --> 00:55:04,730
off from Sydney Australia you've been

1100
00:55:13,720 --> 00:55:06,800
listening to the skeptic zone podcast

1101
00:55:16,180 --> 00:55:13,730
please visit our website at wwlp.com tax

1102
00:55:20,230 --> 00:55:16,190
and to access the bat catalog of

1103
00:55:21,940 --> 00:55:20,240
episodes going back to 2008 you can

1104
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:21,950
follow the skeptic zone podcast on

1105
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:25,010
twitter at skeptic zone visit our

1106
00:55:30,640 --> 00:55:27,290
facebook page or leave a review on

1107
00:55:34,030 --> 00:55:30,650
itunes you can also support the skeptic

1108
00:55:36,370 --> 00:55:34,040
zone via patreon or PayPal the skeptic

1109
00:55:38,530 --> 00:55:36,380
zone podcast is an independent

1110
00:55:40,540 --> 00:55:38,540
production reviews and opinions

1111
00:55:42,670 --> 00:55:40,550
expressed on the skeptic zone are not

1112
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:42,680
necessarily those of Australian skeptics